編者按：近日，中國人民大學(xué)重陽金融研究院院長、全球領(lǐng)導(dǎo)力學(xué)院院長王文接受《印度斯坦時報》邀約專訪，就金磚峰會、特朗普關(guān)稅戰(zhàn)、 邊境沖突、西藏事務(wù)等話題做相關(guān)解答，采訪視頻 在YouTube播出后，引發(fā)廣泛關(guān)注，現(xiàn)將專訪中英文內(nèi)容及視頻發(fā)布如下： （全文中英文約19000字，預(yù)計閱讀時間30分鐘）

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王文：中國國家主席習(xí)近平去年訪問了巴西，因此，今年國務(wù)院總理李強出席了金磚國家峰會。中國從不畏懼美國的關(guān)稅威脅，反倒是美國在懼怕中國，并尋求與中國進行談判。許多西方媒體妖魔化新疆，將其描繪得烏煙瘴氣、可怕至極，我認為這些都是謠言。西藏是我們自己的事務(wù)，中國的主權(quán)不容侵犯，西藏理所應(yīng)當(dāng)是中國的一部分。不要讓邊境沖突或西藏事務(wù)，影響中印這兩個智慧而偉大的國家。

印度斯坦時報：王教授，您說不要過度解讀，但在此我想引用一份報告。這份報告談到，在中美關(guān)稅戰(zhàn)后，中國可能會有越來越多的“抗議”活動，尤其是在美國總統(tǒng)特朗普向中國這個全球第二大經(jīng)濟體發(fā)動貿(mào)易戰(zhàn)后。

王文：我很好奇為什么您經(jīng)常引用那些假新聞。沒有，我向您保證，在中國沒有任何所謂的“罷工”或任何“反政府運動“正在發(fā)生。正如我所說，我們的經(jīng)濟增長非常穩(wěn)定，經(jīng)濟復(fù)蘇動力越來越強而且越來越多的中國人對國家未來充滿堅定信心，我認為這就是我們的現(xiàn)實。

作為一名中國學(xué)者，我只想向印度朋友分享真實的現(xiàn)象和現(xiàn)實，不要相信，（你所說的）那些都是假新聞。我認為了解并觀察中國實際的唯一方式就是親自來中國，我們歡迎所有印度朋友來中國。不妨來親眼看看中國，您會發(fā)現(xiàn)這個國家擁有非常美好的未來，您會愛上這個國家。

印度斯坦時報：我很樂意到訪中國，那里看起來是個迷人的地方。不過話說回來，作為記者，我能否自由前往新疆，并進行獨立報道？我會被允許這樣做嗎？

王文：當(dāng)然，新疆非常美麗，我去過新疆20多次。就在今年夏天，我還計劃帶孩子再去新疆。同樣的，新疆歡迎每一位外國朋友。我承認大約五、六年前，很多西方媒體將新疆妖魔化，將其描繪成黑暗、骯臟、可怕的地方。我認為那都是謠言和假新聞。

所以現(xiàn)在，如果您來新疆，如果您來中國，我保證他們都會歡迎您，歡迎每個來自外國的朋友，這就是新的現(xiàn)實。您剛才還提到了西藏，不過現(xiàn)在去西藏可能身體需要適應(yīng)一下，不是因為政治問題，主要是海拔原因，西藏有很多高山。

印度斯坦時報：教授，請相信我，我完全適應(yīng)高海拔。我很想去西藏看看，并在那里進行獨立報道。

王文：那么歡迎您！如果您在北京或者中國的任何一個地方，我都可以全程安排，或許還能陪您再訪西藏。我大概去過五次西藏，我覺得那是一個非常神奇且神秘的地方。我十分熱愛西藏，也很樂意陪同印度朋友再次探訪西藏。

印度斯坦時報：王教授，我問這個問題，我想知道我能否獲準在中國境內(nèi)進行獨立報道。因為就在2020年，來自多家媒體的18名記者，包括《紐約時報》、《華盛頓郵報》和《華爾街日報》的記者被驅(qū)逐出境，還有數(shù)名記者遭遇簽證續(xù)簽拒簽。

王文：我認為這很正常，因為即便是印度政府，也會針對那些制造假新聞的記者。很多西方媒體甚至妖魔化印度，導(dǎo)致印度政府反感。正如我提到的，在過去10年或20年間，有很多西方媒體記者，他們妖魔化新疆，發(fā)布了關(guān)于新疆和中國的大量負面新聞。

另一方面，即自2018年以來，特朗普第一任期對中國發(fā)動了貿(mào)易戰(zhàn)、科技戰(zhàn)甚至簽證戰(zhàn)。美國政府取消了大量中國記者和學(xué)者的簽證。因此，作為反制措施，中國出臺了相應(yīng)政策針對西方記者，特別是美國媒體記者。中國政府有權(quán)取消他們的簽證。我認為這是應(yīng)對不良分子的正常政策。我認為這是一個主權(quán)國家的基本權(quán)力和正當(dāng)權(quán)利，這是對等的反制措施。

我想告訴印度朋友們，我們應(yīng)相互尊重。試想，若西方媒體經(jīng)常批評印度，妖魔化印度形象，我相信印度政府也會采取類似政策。

印度斯坦時報：但2023年，印度公共廣播公司駐華記者Anshuman Mishra和《印度教徒報》駐華記者Ananth Krishnan被告知，他們的簽證將不予續(xù)簽。而《印度報業(yè)托拉斯》的駐華通訊員K.J.M Varam是最后一個留在中國的印度記者，他被要求在該月月底之前撤離北京。

王文：對此，我深感遺憾，也感到非常惋惜。我們兩國的關(guān)系現(xiàn)狀，不僅是媒體交流受阻，中印直航航班也已全部中斷。中國企業(yè)在印投資持續(xù)萎縮，印度企業(yè)幾乎無人來華投資。我認為，對于中印雙邊關(guān)系現(xiàn)狀，我感到非常失望。兩國人員往來也降至冰點。我曾兩次獲得與貴國駐華大使共進午餐的機會。我申請過印度簽證，2020年前曾三次造訪印度。

我十分熱愛印度，一直主張中印應(yīng)該互相學(xué)習(xí)。但在我兩次向印度駐華使館（北京）遞交簽證申請之后，我覺得甚至連我也沒有再次造訪印度的機會了，這對我來說非常遺憾。我也對中印雙邊關(guān)系表示深深的遺憾。據(jù)我所知，目前在印度也沒有任何中國記者。我認為這對于兩個總?cè)丝诮?0億的大國而言極不正常。所以，我認為中印雙方都需要反思。

印度斯坦時報：您提到的這些內(nèi)容，這些在中印雙邊交流中缺失的，到底是哪方導(dǎo)致的？

王文：這是一個非常復(fù)雜的問題。我認為在2018年之前，我們兩國的關(guān)系在逐步改善。但2018年后，確切來說是2019年，中印邊境沖突和雙邊關(guān)系變得愈加緊張。這令人感到十分遺憾。

印度斯坦時報：2019年邊境沖突爆發(fā)，這場沖突是由中國挑起的，您是否認為中國應(yīng)該為此負責(zé)？

王文：這些都是非常專業(yè)的問題，我認為如果要討論這些問題，我們可以辯論一天一夜甚至更久。這些問題應(yīng)該由專業(yè)人士來進行討論，我們并非局內(nèi)人，我認為這些問題可以由外交官或安全專家進行討論。

我只想說：中國和印度都是非常重要的國家，應(yīng)該保持冷靜，不要讓這些微小的問題影響我們雙邊關(guān)系的恢復(fù)。我們兩國都是偉大的國家，我們擁有廣闊的未來，需要以宏大的視野來開創(chuàng)更廣闊的未來。不要讓這些小問題，比如邊境問題，影響我們重大的戰(zhàn)略關(guān)系。這是我們的戰(zhàn)略。希望我們友好的印度朋友也能這樣做。

印度斯坦時報：繼續(xù)下一個話題，我想回到金磚國家，以及因缺席而引人注目的事件，也就是中國國家領(lǐng)導(dǎo)人缺席金磚峰會。我們來談?wù)劊@是否受到特朗普長期以來的反金磚國家立場影響？他持續(xù)發(fā)表相關(guān)言論已有時日，并提及關(guān)稅問題。

王文：不，事實上，正如我所說，中國從未畏懼過美國的關(guān)稅戰(zhàn)威脅。實際上，回顧2018年，面對美國的關(guān)稅壁壘，中國采取了強有力的反制措施。我們可以看到過去七年間，中國在關(guān)稅戰(zhàn)中取得了全面勝利。

盡管七年前，您可以看到美國試圖打壓華為公司，但過去七年里，華為不僅沒有倒下，反而創(chuàng)造了更大的價值，不是嗎？所以，即便美國動用舉國之力打壓一家中國企業(yè)，美國也失敗了。更不用說試圖打壓中國這一個國家了。因此，我認為在這場關(guān)稅戰(zhàn)中，中國充滿信心。我們相信，就關(guān)稅戰(zhàn)而言，美國根本無法遏制中國。

未來事實也將證明，這種技術(shù)封鎖是極其錯誤的決策，而這場關(guān)稅戰(zhàn)終將反噬美國自身。展望未來，我們將看到中國贏得關(guān)稅戰(zhàn)。未來10年內(nèi)，中國GDP將超越美國，成為世界第一大經(jīng)濟體?；蛟S就在10年后。這就是我們的自信。

印度斯坦時報：既然您都這么說了，那我祝愿貴國發(fā)展順利。但實際上，中國的經(jīng)濟增長速率其實已在放緩。今年原本預(yù)計增長5.4%，但經(jīng)濟放緩后目前預(yù)計增長率可能會降至4.5%到4.7%。

王文：我認為這很正常。因為中國的經(jīng)濟基數(shù)已經(jīng)非常龐大。即便是印度，未來可能也會面臨經(jīng)濟增長下滑的情況。你們每年保持6%，7%或8%的經(jīng)濟增速，但經(jīng)濟總量很小。您們的經(jīng)濟總量只有中國的五分之一。這是非常簡單的數(shù)學(xué)計算。所以，你們的經(jīng)濟增速看起來很高，能到達8%甚至9%，我認為這很正常。只要經(jīng)濟總量變大，經(jīng)濟增長速率自然就會放緩。

但即便中國保持5%的增速，每年新增的GDP總量都相當(dāng)于整個土耳其的經(jīng)濟體量。甚至每三年，中國新增的GDP就相當(dāng)于英國全年GDP總量。這個計算很簡單。這就是為什么我相信，無論是在過去還是未來十年內(nèi)，中國仍能保持5%甚至4.5%或4%的經(jīng)濟增長率。中國必將超越美國，在2035年成為世界第一大經(jīng)濟體。

印度斯坦時報：盡管您如此說，但我這里有份世界銀行報告，指出GDP增長的數(shù)字與就業(yè)率增長并不掛鉤。

王文：作為智庫學(xué)者，我們時刻心系祖國發(fā)展。我國政府也坦言，GDP增速確實在放緩，壓力不小。但即便如此，縱觀中國社會穩(wěn)定與社會發(fā)展，他們依然保持正常、穩(wěn)定、可持續(xù)的狀態(tài)。

看看中國的新能源汽車，看看中國的人工智能發(fā)展。不知您是否用深度求索（DeepSeek）？我認為這些都展現(xiàn)了一個非常明顯的發(fā)展現(xiàn)象?？纯粗袊母呖萍及l(fā)展，我們在人工智能創(chuàng)新方面成果豐碩。再看看中國的高鐵網(wǎng)絡(luò)以及高速公路系統(tǒng)?？纯粗袊暮娇蘸教斐删?，還有對2030年的展望，中國人將再次登月。

我認為每個現(xiàn)象都能證明，不要相信那些西方媒體的假新聞，也不要只關(guān)注數(shù)字，并孤立片面看待中國發(fā)展的現(xiàn)象。這樣您才能看到真實的中國發(fā)展。

印度斯坦時報：我們都看到印度沒有簽署上合組織聯(lián)合聲明，因為中國拒絕在文件中寫入巴基斯坦?fàn)幾h事件，并沒有提及4·22克什米爾槍擊事件。于是，印度拒絕簽署。該聲明最終未能達成一致并發(fā)布。

王文：關(guān)于恐怖主義問題該如何表態(tài)，這些都是非常復(fù)雜的問題。但我必須說明：中巴關(guān)系就如手足般親密，印度對此心知肚明。但即便如此，中國依然希望與印度保持良好關(guān)系。這也是我接受您的采訪的原因。我只是想讓印度朋友們冷靜下來，理性分析中、印、巴之間這些復(fù)雜問題。

我認為我們有個顯而易見的共同目標，那就是各自推動我們自己國家的復(fù)興。這是我們的共同利益關(guān)切所在。如果印度能變得更強大，中國會樂見其成。因為中印都是古老的東方文明。我們尊重印度。

同樣，在古代，我們曾向印度學(xué)習(xí)，未來也將如此。如果印度和中國能夠同時崛起，我認為這是我們共同的幸事。在100多年前甚至80年前，印度還是殖民地，一百年前中國正遭受西方列強的侵略。如今，我們都已成為獨立主權(quán)國家?，F(xiàn)在，我們在同步崛起。我認為這都是非常好的事情。別讓那些西方國家看我們笑話。

印度斯坦時報：我們需要一定時間，以及中方需要做出大量努力并釋放善意，或許才能讓這種局面得以消除。您不贊成嗎？

王文：正如我先前所說的關(guān)于邊境沖突的內(nèi)容，這是非常專業(yè)性的問題。我們雙方都不具備足夠的知識和信息來對此做出判斷。你無非是想了解中國學(xué)者對金磚國家和中國政策的看法。但您總是把焦點放在邊境沖突上。我認為這個方向錯了。這會影響您的工作。

這對兩國關(guān)系來說，也是同樣的道理。還有更廣闊的合作空間。不要讓邊境沖突影響我們更廣泛的合作。這就是我說的，邊境沖突是專業(yè)性問題，應(yīng)交由專業(yè)人士研判。我們只管做好合作事項，專注我們的合作?，F(xiàn)在我接受您采訪，這就是我們的合作。如果您總是糾纏那些邊境沖突問題，只會破壞我們的合作。

印度斯坦時報：您如何看待中方的立場以及達賴喇嘛的言論？

王文：中國的政策非常明確：西藏是中國內(nèi)政。不要干涉中國的主權(quán)。西藏自古以來就是中國的一部分。所以，達賴喇嘛是個壞人。達賴喇嘛企圖分裂中國。我認為這很明顯。

印度斯坦時報：壞人？一個主張非暴力的人？

王文：是的。他是一個壞人。他是分裂分子。在中國，根據(jù)中國政府，根據(jù)中國法律，他觸犯了中國的法律，也破壞了中國的統(tǒng)一。我認為這些都顯而易見。印度利用達賴喇嘛，打達賴喇嘛牌，我認為這非常危險。要牢記，正如我所說的，中國尊重印度。讓我們探討更廣泛的議題。不要讓邊境沖突或西藏事務(wù)，影響我們這兩個智慧而偉大的國家。

印度斯坦時報：印度和中國之間存在巨大貿(mào)易逆差。這個逆差對中國有利。這意味著印中之間的貿(mào)易不平衡，是偏向中國的。

王文：我非常認同您的一個觀點，那就是貿(mào)易逆差。為什么您們會有逆差？因為中國的制造業(yè)比印度強得多。所以，你們的任務(wù)是發(fā)展印度，讓印度快速地變得比以前更強大。我去過印度三次。我知道印度高鐵很少，高速公路也很少，地鐵更是寥寥無幾。印度基礎(chǔ)設(shè)施很差。但即便如此，我仍然對印度的未來充滿信心。所以，讓我們行動起來。

印度需要中國的幫助，中國也需要印度的合作?，F(xiàn)在，很明顯需要我們展現(xiàn)對彼此的友好。不要讓這些小問題影響我們的合作與友誼。這非常重要。讓我們攜手解決更重要的問題。彼此微笑，展現(xiàn)我們的友誼。這樣，敏感問題就會逐步解決。

我始終相信、我仍然堅信：中印兩國應(yīng)該建立更牢固的友誼和關(guān)系。這對雙方都更有利，也能讓雙方攜手共創(chuàng)更美好的未來。這是我的觀點。這也是我接受采訪的原因，就是想向我的印度朋友們表達善意。

印度斯坦時報：感謝您接受采訪，教授。

王文：謝謝你邀請我。

對話內(nèi)容英文版

Wang wen：President Xi visited Brazil last year. So this year, he let Chinese Premier Li Qiang attended the BRICS summit. China has never been afraid of the U.S. tariff threat. On the contrary, it is the U.S. that is afraid of Chinaand begs to negotiate with China. A lot of western media, they demonize Xinjiang and describe a very black, very dirty, very terrible Xinjiang. I think that is all rumor. Tibet is our own issue. Don't intervene in China's sovereignty. Tibet is naturally one part of China. Don't let the border conflict or the Dalai Lama issues influence our two smart and great countries.

Hindustan Times：Professor Wang, you are saying don't over speculate, but here's a report that I'd like to quote, and the report is referring to the protests which might be on the rise in China in the after math of tariffs. especially after the U.S. president Donald Trump set up a trade war with world's second largest economy.

Wang wen：I'm wondering why you often quote those fake news. No, I guarantee, trust me. In China, no any so called "strike" or any anti-government movement happened now in China. Now, as I said, the economic growth is very stableand our economic recovery has more and more power. And also, more and more Chinese people, they have a very strong confidence in our country's future. I think these are all the reality. So as a Chinese scholar, I just want to share the real phenomena and real reality to my Indian friends. Don't trust, those are fake news. I think the only way to understand and observe China's reality is that come to China. Welcome every Indian friend to China. Just have a look and observe in China, you can see that this country has a very good, very nice future, and you will like the country indeed.

Hindustan Times：I'd be happy. I'd be happy to visit China,I mean it seems like a lovely place. But having said that, as a journalist, would I be free to travel to Xinjiang for that matter and report from there independently? Would I be allowed to do that?

Wang wen：Of course Xinjiang is very beautiful. I have been in Xinjiang more than 20 times. Even this summer, I plan to bring my children to Xinjiang again. And also, Xinjiang welcome every foreign friends. But I admit that in the maybe five or six years ago, a lot of western media demonize Xinjiang and describe a very black, very dirty, very terrible Xinjiang. I think that is all rumor, all fake news. So I think nowadays, if you come to Xinjiang, if you come to China, I guarantee they will welcome you, welcome every foreign country. So this is new reality. And also you mentioned about Tibet, but nowadays maybe Tibet is a little bit uncomfortable, not because of political issues, but also the altitude. Cause I think Tibet has high mountains.

Hindustan Times：Believe in me professor, I'm absolutely fine with altitude. I'd love to visit Tibet and report from there independently.

Wang wen：So welcome you! If you are in Beijing or in countries in China, I can all coordinate. Maybe I can accompany with you to Tibet again. I have been in Tibet for more than...maybe about 5 times. So I think this is a very amazing, mysterious place. So I love Tibet very much. Also I'd like to accompany with Indian friendto visit Tibet again.

Hindustan Times：So professor Wang, the reason I asked you that question if I'd be allowed to report from inside China independently, is because just in 2020,18 journalists from various publications, including New York Times, Washington Postand Wall Street Journal were expelled and several others were denied visa renewals.

Wang wen：I think it's very normal, because even the Indian government will do such a policy against those fake news journalists, a lot of western media, they even demonize India, which let the India government dislike those media, those journalists. As I mentioned that in the past 10 or past 20 years, there are a lot of western media journalists. They demonized Xinjiang. They published so many negative news about Xinjiang, about China. And on the other hand, that is, since 2018, president Trump 1.0 launched a trade war, high tech war, even a visa war to China, and U.S. government cancelleda lot of Chinese journalists and scholars' visas. So as a countermeasure, China did such a policy against western journalists, especially the U.S. media journalists. The Chinese government cancelled their visas. I think this a very normal...it's a normal policy against those bad persons. So I think this is a basic powerand basic right as a sovereignty states. This is a mutual countermeasure.

So I think, please, my Indian friends,we have a mutual respect. Imagined if a lot of western medias, they often criticize India, often demonize India...I think, I trust, I believe, that Indian government will have such a policy.

Hindustan Times：In 2023, Anshuman Mishra of Prasar Bharatiand Ananth Krishnan of the Hindu were informed that their visas will not be renewed. And K.J.M Varam, was the last Indian journalist in China, of Press Trust of India,was asked to leave Beijing by the end of the month.

Wang wen：Yes, I feel very regret and feel very pity about our two country relationship. Not only the journalist relationship, but also there are no direct flights between China and India. The Chinese companies are investing less and less in India, and there are almost no India company investing in China. I think this is...I feel very disappointed about our bilateral relationship, and there is also a very little personnel exchange between China and IndiaI have twice lunch opportunities face by face with your ambassador in Beijing. And I applied for the India visa, and before the 2020 I have been in India 3 times. I love India very much.And I said that China and India should learn each other. But after I apply twice to India ambassador in India embassy in Beijing, I felt even for me I have no opportunity to visit India again. I think it's a very pity for meand also very regret to our bilateral relationship. In terms of my understanding, that in India, there are no any Chinese journalists. I think this is very abnormal for two great countries with a total population of nearly three billion. So I think... I hope that both China and India need to reflect.

Hindustan Times：Those things which you were talking about which are missing in the bilateral exchange between India and China, whose fault is that?

Wang wen：This is very complicated. I think before the 2018, our two country, the relationship recovered gradually. But after 2018 and 2019, the border conflict, our bilateral relationship, become worse and worse. This is very pity. By 2019, the border conflict started which was of course started by China. Would you say in that case China is at fault? These are very professional issues. I think if we should talk about those issues, we can debate one day, one night or longer. I think those issues belong to those professional person to debate.We are not inside person. I think those are diplomats or security person who can discuss about that. I just want to say China and India, those VVIP person could be calm down. Don't let such a very small issueto influence our bilateral relation recovery. We are... both of us are all very great countries. We have a broad future. We need to have a big visionto do the broader future, and don't let those small issues, such a border issue, to influence our big strategic relationship. So this is our strategy. I hope our friendly Indian friends can do that way.

Hindustan Times：Moving on, I wanna circle back to BRICS, and the conspicuous by absence, President Xi's absence at the summit and talk for a little bit about was it the impact and effect of Donald Trump's, this animosity towards BRICS that he now has been talking about for a while and has talked about tariffs.

Wang wen：No. Actually, I think, as I said, that China has never been afraid of the U.S. tariff threat. Actually, since 2018,China has a huge countermeasure to the U.S. tariff war. And we can see in the past seven years, China totally won the tariff war. Even though you can see that seven years ago, U.S. side deterred the Huawei company. But in the past seven years,Huawei company didn't die. On the contrary, Huawei's value developed much bigger than before, right？So even the U.S. use the whole country's power deter a Chinese company,U.S. failed. You know. How about China, a country. So I think that in this tariff war, China has full confidence. And we think that in terms of the tariff war, U.S. cannot contain China at all. And also in the future, the future reality will prove that the tariff war is a tremendously terrible, bad thing, and the tariff war will hurt U.S. itself. And also, in the future, we can see that China will won the tariff war. And also in the coming ten years, China's GDP will surpass United Statesand become the No.1 economy in the future, maybe in 10 years. So this is our confidence.

Hindustan Times：You're saying that and I wish you all the best and your country, but you're saying that while the growth rate has come down, it was supposed to be 5.4% for this year. But after the slowdown, it is being projected that the growth will perhaps come down 4.5% to 4.7%.

Wang wen：I think it's very normal, because in China, the existing value is very very big. Even for India, maybe in the future, Indian’s economic growth will fall down again. Now you have 6%, 7% or 8% economic growth every year, but your value is very small. Your index value is only 1/5 of China's GDP value. So that's a very easy math calculation. So your economic growth is very big, 8% even 9%,I think this is very normal. As long as your value become bigger, and your economic growth rate will be slowdown. But even that, China has a 5% economic growth, but every year the adding value of the GDP is equal to Turkey's total value. Even every three years, China's adding GDP value is equal to UK’s total GDP value annually. I think this is a very easy calculation. So that's why my confidence is that even in the past, in the coming ten years, China can keep the 5% or even 4.5% or even 4% in the coming 10 years. It is sure that China would surpass United Statesas No.1 economy in 2035.

Hindustan Times：Sure, while you say that, there is a World Bank report, which suggests that the growth in GDP and the numbers there are not connected to job growth.

Wang wen：Of course. We, as a think tank scholar, we think about our country very much. And even our government always admit that the GDP is a slowdown, it's a big pressure. But even that, you look at China's social stability and social development are still very normal, very stable, very sustainable. You look at China's EV car.You look at China AI development. I don't know whether you use DeepSeek. I think these are all very obvious development phenomenon. And look at China's high tech development, right? We have a lot, a lot of AI innovation. And look at the China's high-speed railway and high-speed way. And look at China's air space. And also, look at the expectations of 2030.China person will land on the moon. I think every phenomena can prove that. Don't trust those western media's fake news, and also don't only focus on those numbers simply look at the whole phenomenon of China development. I think you can see the real China development.

Hindustan Times：We all saw that SCO joint statement was not signed by India, because China refused to incorporate name of Pakistanand mention of Pahalgam terrorist attack in the joint statement. After which India refused to sign that statement and no joint statement was issued.

Wang wen：These are all very complicated issue. But I have to say that Pakistan and China relationship is like a brother relationship. India knows it very much. So even that China side hopes to have a good relationship with India. That's why I accept the interview with youI just let Indian friends to calm downand to analyze the complicated issues among China, India and Pakistan. I think one common target for us is very obvious: that is to promote our own national rejuvenation. So that's our common interest. If India can become a much stronger power, I think the Chinese will very like to see it, because India and China are all very ancient eastern civilizations. We respect India. And also in the ancient times, we learn a lot from India. So in the future, if India and China can rise up simultaneously, I think this is our common happiness things. And in the 100 years ago, even 80 years ago, India is a colony. And 100 years ago China was invaded by the western country. So now we become the sovereignty power. Now we rise up simultaneously. I think these are all very good things. Don't let those western countries laugh us.

Hindustan Times：So there is some time and there are a lot of effort and lot of gestures from Chinese side,which would be required for this to perhaps go away. Wouldn't you agree?

Wang wen：As I said about the border conflict,that is a very professional issue. Both of us has no enough knowledge and information to judge about it.You just want to know a Chinese scholars' opinion about the BRICS, about China's policy. But you now often focus on the border conflict, I think this is a wrong direction, that will influence your job. I think this is the same logic for our two-countries relationship has some much wider cooperation fields to do. So don't let the border conflict influence our much wider cooperation. I think this is, as I said, the border conflict is very professional issue. Let professional to judge that. Let us just do our own cooperation issue, just focus on our cooperation. Now I accept your interview, that's our cooperation. If you always do that, debate those border conflicts, so that will broke our cooperation.

Hindustan Times：What do you think of the Chinese position and what the Dalai Lama said?

Wang wen：China's policy is very obvious, that Tibet is our own issues. Don't intervene China's sovereignty. Tibet is naturally one part of China. So Dalai Lama is a bad person. Dalai Lama wants to separate China. I think this is obvious.

Hindustan Times：Bad person?

Wang wen：Yes. A man who is nonviolent. He is a bad person. He is a bad person. He's a separatist. In China, in China government, in China law. He broken the China's lawand also he's broken China's unification. I think these are all very obvious. So in India, use the Dalai Lama, play the Dalai Lama card. I think this is very dangerous. Remember it . And as I said in some, China respects India. And let's do much wider issues. Don't let the border conflict or the Dalai Lama issue influence our two smart and great countries.

Hindustan Times：India and China have a massive deficit, and the deficit is in favor of China,which means the trade imbalance between India and Chinais in favor of China.

Wang wen：One point I agree with you very obviously that is a deficit. Why you have the deficit?Because China's manufacturing is much stronger than India. So your mission is that developing India very quickly to make it much stronger than before. So I have been in India three times. I know India have very few high-speed railway, very few high-speed way, very few subway. India's infrastructure are very bad, but even that I still have a very full confidence on India’s future. So let's do it. India needs China's help, and of course China needs India's cooperation. So nowadays it's very obvious that let's show our friendliness to each other. Don't let those small issues influence our cooperation and friendship. This is very important. Let's do those bigger issues and stand together, smile at each other, and show our friendship. Then we will resolve those sensitive issues gradually. I still think and trust that China and India we should have a much better friendship and relationship. So if that, both of us will have more interest and a much better future. That's my opinion. That's why I accept your interview, just want to show my friendship to my Indian friends.

Hindustan Times：Thank you. Thank you for accepting the request professor.

Wang wen：Thank y ou for having me.

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